our war in afghanistan will be over. >> 34,000 u.s. troops will come home from afghanistan over the next year. that was news. the president also made news on the domestic policy front tonight as well calling for an increase in the federal minimum wainlg to $9 per hour. he also addressed at some length what has increasingly become a partisan issue across the country. the small democratic act of voting itself. >> defendin ining our freedom t is not just the job of our military alone. we must all do our part to make sure our god-given right is protected here at home. that includes one of the most fundamental rights of a democracy, the right to vote.

when any american, no matter where they live or what their party, are denied that right, because they can't afford to wait for five or six or seven hours just to cast their ballot, we are betraying our ideals. so -- so tonight i'm announcing a nonpartisan commission to improve the voting experience in america. and it definitely needs improvement. >> perhaps the emotional crescendo of tonight's speech happens towards the end when the president pivoted to the issue of gun violence. 31 members of congress, all democratic side, brought to the speech tonight somebody effected by gun violence. and the president appealed for a vote in congress on gun safety measures by making direct reference to a number of those in attendance, including the

parents of pendleton, a chicago honor student, teenage girl, 15 years old, that was shot and killed just days after attending the president's inauguration. watch. >> her parents are in this chamber tonight along with more than two dozen americans whose lives have been torn apart by gun violence. they deserved a vote. [ applause ] >> they deserve a vote. they deserve a vote. gaby geferreds deserves a vote. the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of all laura deserve a vote.

the families of oak creek and tucson and blackburn and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a simple vote. >> he also called for comprehensive immigration reform and got bipartisan reform on that. he called for change on climate change. the severe weather is not come in his words, a freak coincidence. he pledged more transparency on the issue of counter-terrorism. shortly after he wrapped up the union address, the republican response was given by marco review. some of his rhetorical points were probably an awkward, big, physical lurch for a drink of water. there was a republican response to the republican response to the president's state of the union address. there was a tea party response

delivered by republican senator rand call of kentucky on line after marco rubio finished his response. he said today that he did not want the republicans to be the opposition but for them to be the alternative. if you did not like him, they were putting up an alternative to the alternative kind of like off broadway and off, off broadway. there is lots to discuss. i want to go to the reverend al sharpton and lawrence o'donnell. what are we hearing from the president that indicates any difference in approach to a second term as compared to his first? >> he was very clear he would be more aggressive. he talked a lot about the executive action he would take. he would go around congress. i don't think we heard that as much in the first term. i think he was very specific in how he wanted to go several courses.

what was billed as a rebuttal but never rebutted, because mr. rubio mentioned immigration, never said how the republicans wanted to have immigration. he says his parents were immigrants, and that was it. he said he went to school on government money but is against government. aside from the awkward drink of water, i think his real problem is that it was the wrong night, wrong city. tuesday night in washington, wednesday night in new york. there is a place called the apollo. amateur night on wednesday night at the apollo. >> ouch. that hurt me in the crossfire. lawrence o'donnell. >> it was a major proposal that he kept under a certain wracked by not mentioning the number. he said that he was willing, in this negotiation, to avoid the sequestered and offered to the republicans' medicare cuts. he did not specify an amount,

just the same amount that the bulls commission wanted. he suggested arriving at them in very vague ways, one having more affluent seniors play more. there are a variety of ways to do that. one of them, probably were most of the savings would be, to change the nature of medicare payments from a fee-for-service system, which is very reassuring to the patience, to something that he was very vague about but was probably an overall fee for a patient in which the doctor, many would argue, begins to eir stability and balance. >> wow! decrats, but that was the key proposal he made tonight.

he was so sensitive about it that he had to disguise it. it will be a major story tomorrow. >> let's put that to robert gibbs. he is willing to mix it up with us because it's part of his job now. on what lawrence was just saying on that proposal and that being something that might be very hard for democrats to swallow, is the president saying what he will do to entitlements? >> rachel, i think the president has always been up front that we have to make common sense adjustments to medicare. i don't believe that what lawrence is talking about, something that would fundamentally change, as you heard him say the progress that we has made to american seniors. i am reminded of the story on the front page of "the new york times" about the fact that health care being treated differently and treating the patient rather than saying been paid for amputating the leg of a

diabetic we pay the doctor to treat that patient and prevent them from having diabetes. those are the kinds of things we can see great savings in the health care system, but i do not think the president will fundamentally restructure medicare in the way that lawrence is discussing. >> what do you make of marco rubio's charge tonight? he specifically said that he should not be talking about what he likes about medicare. anybody not talking about what is wrong with medicare is constructing it to bankruptcy. that is very consistent with what mitt romney charged. >> save a few gauzy lines about immigration reform. that could have been a speech delivered by paul ryan or mitt romney the day before the election, an election, quite honestly, they lost decisively. it really reminds me that all of this effort that is going on in the republican party really is a

marketing scheme. it's really about changing the packaging. it's really about putting the candy bar in a different wrapper. the very same thing that romney said the day before the election, they lost decisively. marco rubio picked up the mantle and one more time leading off with the fact that the president believes that the private enterprise system is what causes our faults in america. i will note that the only lurch left was to get a bottle of water. again, i was really struck by the fact that as you mentioned, the president outlined a robust american agenda. don't misunderstand him when he says they deserved a vote. he wasn't just speaking about the parents in that room. i think he was speaking about all american citizens and all the proposals that he outlined, whether it's the minimum wage, clean energy, a whole host of these things.

those proposals deserve a boat. that is what we want to see. the contrast of marco rubio giving a personal speech directed not at the country but very personally at the president, i think, is a huge missed opportunity for the republican party. they have to do something differently, or they will continue to lose national elections. >> whether or not you like republican policy ideas or vice versa, but contrast of the president talking and marco rubio talking about the president did not serve him well. >> at the end of the speech, again, it was almost as if it was two different speeches. rubio wants to take it big, let's come together and work on these things together. is this the same guy that was just basically blaming the president for everything, including bad weather? it just seemed very, very -- it will be seen as very off-putting

to the people that live in this country and decide elections. it huge missed opportunity. >> thank you. pleasure to have you here tonight. >> thank you. >> i think rubio -- it sounds primitive as well -- to the caucus voters. i don't think it was aimed at the country. he was speaking to the base of the republican party that does not like the president. he did not lose any votes from those people. he did not solve their problem, but he got a good chunk of it for his purposes. >> there is a question as to whether or not he is has a message. >> he did not get there. >> let's go to choctaw. he joins us from washington. what did they want members of congress to take away from this? >> well, they never said they wanted him to take away saying we wanted to have you have a vote on this.

they kept telegraphing, this is a speech that will be about the economy. it was technically. you can't help but take away that the message that this speech is going to be remembered for is a very emotional ending, one of the most emotional state of the unions, which are not normally emotional addresses. that will end up being the takeaway. they did want to send this message to congress to say this is not the consolatory obama that came in january 2011 with that need that he knew he was chasing. that he was going to have to work together with the republicans. a somewhat toned down barack obama from the 2012 state of the union trying to talk to the voters, set the tone for the campaign. he wanted to deliver this. hey, guys, we have to do some of these votes. i wonder, they have a lot of

what i would call very well pull tests. the issue that they hit on on education and the economy in particular, things like universal prepaid, raising the minimum wage, these are tangible items that average, middle-class families listening to this , speech. i have a feeling that could resonate very well. they accomplish what they wanted to do, which is talk about the economy in simpler terms over the head of washington. >> chuck todd, thank you for joining us. >> all right. >> joining us from san antonio, texas, the mayor of san antonio. mayor castro, thank you for joining us. >> let me ask you about the word comprehensive. we have all been if through

watching the attempt by the government to reform immigration back in the '80s under reagan. what stopped it from being affected is that it was never enforced. it really wasn't given any credit. when we say the phrase, comprehensive, what does that mean to you? >> what it means is that it has at least three things, first, that it will continue to enhance the security of our borders, even though as president obama has pointed out, that has been enhanced tremendously over the past few years. secondly, when an employer hire someone, they can no that person is here legally. they will be held accountable. fired, and this is the part of that is at issue here, that we do something positive to put the 11 million folks who are undocumented on a pathway to citizenship after they have paid a fine, paid back taxes, learned

english and gone to the back of the line. >> what will be the toughest part of that to win? >> oh, there's no question the toughest part is the issue of a pathway to citizenship. unfortunately it seems as though what some of the house republicans want is to create a permanent subclass of folks who would not be citizens, maybe not even lawful, permanent residents. i thought that the ending of president obama's speech in calling the country together but also using the word citizen and saying that is what we are made of and we are, that has a lot of resonance as debate comprehensive reform. >> those opposing a full pass way to citizenship, they don't like voting? >> well probably some of the

folks who are absolutely opposed to citizenship, that's at the top of their mind, sure. i agree with that. >> what is your bet right now? based on what the president said tonight i think we will have less troops in afghanistan. that will be real. he is completely in charge of that. immigration looks to me like a great prospect for this year, the great hope. republicans want the issue behind them because it has hurt them at the polls. tissues -- democrats believe in the issue. the unions, i have never understood their position on this. do you think it will ever get done? >> i believe that it will get done. i believe that the republican party knows that if it doesn't get done that what they saw in 2012 will happen again in 2014,

2016 and beyond that. as i said last week when i testified in front of the house judiciary committee, america is watching these legislators on this boat. >> thank you very much, mayor castro, from san antonio. >> thank you. >> much to report and analyze. policies and the politics in the big speech and in the response from marco rubio .this is a bill live coverage of the 2013 state of the union. >> after a decade of grinding war, our brave men and women in uniform are coming home. to grow, we have to boost our social media visibility.

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we know our economy is stronger when we reward an honest day's work with honest wages. today, a full-time worker making a winning wage earns $14,500 a year. even with the tax relief we put in place. a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. that's wrong. that's why i sense the last time we raised the minimum wage, 19 states chose to bump there is even higher. tonight, let's declare that in

the wealthiest nation on earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty and raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour. >> that was the big policy surprise of tonight's state of the union. president obama calling on congress to raise the federal minimum wage from where it is right now, $7.25 to $9 an hour. alex wagner joins us now. i think the president made news on this point. is this a realistic policy vote? >> it was really shocking that republicans couldn't stand up for equal pay, couldn't stand up for a fair voting system in the u.s., to see them agree to $9 an hour would seem to me to be a jump. at the same time, this is the story of america right now, one of the most under discussed issues in the country, the fact

that one in two american families live at the poverty line. the poverty line is 23,000, $24,000 a year. to some degree, it should not be shocking that they will take this up as a matter of discourse. at the same time, of course it was. we have come so far away from the subject of poverty and mobility. it was a really important moment for the state of the union. >> something they discovered over the past decade was when you put the minimum wage, you raise the minimum wage on the ballot at the state level, not only does it pass, but it passes by a lot and with so much wind in its sales that it tends to drive up democratic voter turnout. progressive groups have always seen this as a sleeper issue. if democrats embrace it, it might have brought electoral effect. is that driving any of this? >> sure.

look, what we know right now is that he is thinking about the country. that is a result of the fact that he is not enamored of washington and washington politics. it has not been good for him the past four years. he is talking to real americans and knows that wages have stagnated. that is in parallel with labor unions. middle-class wages since 1979 have gone nowhere. this is a winning issue, and it's weird to me that more democrats don't take this up. one of my favorite tweets of the net was that president obama is talking about a nondollar minimum wage. he was the last person to take this up and be seen as a fighter in the middle class in wages and in talking about poverty as a problem that needed to be addressed. >> democrats in the states where they have championed this are

smiling over this tonight, both as policy and politics. thank you. very smart. >> thanks, rachel. >> joining us now, senior red house adviser to president obama. good evening miss jarrett. >> good evening, al and everybody else on the panel. the president surprised everyone by calling for a minimum wage of $9. is there a white house plan, given what we know the president is proposing to congress, immigration, gun legislation and other measures, is there a direct plan to go after raising the minimum wage? >> absolutely. he will take his case to the american people as he did tonight. he will be traveling around our country. what i really thought was that he was speaking directly into the living rooms of so many people. his message really resonated. i think he nailed the answer to the three questions, what are we going to do to bring jobs back,

how are we going to equip our work force to be prepared for the jobs of tomorrow, and how are you going to earn a good living? those are the questions the american people wanted to hear the answers to. he gave robust answers, and we have to turn those words into action. >> i know he is doing a conference call with a lot of his volunteers around the country tonight, tomorrow going to north carolina, atlanta, then chicago. is the strategy for the president to galvanize americans to put pressure on the congress to deal with some of what he laid out tonight? >> absolutely. he completed that phone call, the first phone call he made after his speech. he said to his supporters, i want to speak to you because i need your help. in order for us to do what we have in store, we need to make sure the american people are involved and committed.

that is what he began tonight and will continue as he travels throughout the week. yes, he will continue to work with congress to join him in this effort, but very importantly he has to take the message directly to the american people and ask for their support and help. >> he ended with a crescendo of a very emotional field around gun legislation and around voting. we noticed when he referred to the 102-year-old lady, you were in the box with her. what was the mood of those that were seated in the first lady's box, family members of victims of gun violence and this lady that stood in line 102 years old, to vote. give us some mood as the president really drew on the emotions of both of these issues.

>> as you said, it was very emotional. these are people who have suffered and sacrificed and are resilient and a determined. when you hear their stories, when you see a woman who is 102 and stands in line for hours, traveling to washington. there she is sitting in a box with the first lady, meeting the president, who took a picture with her. he let everyone after the speech. it sends a message about the strength of our country, the resilience of our country. ordinary people can do extraordinary things. everyone left committed to action, and that is the momentum we have to build. we have to keep it going. we cannot call it one night's activity. we have to pass legislation, and

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i will direct my cabinet to come up with executive actions we can take now and in the future to reduce pollution, repair our communities for climate change and speed the transition to more sustainable energy. >> president obama called for action on climate change saying he wants congress to act and if they don't, he will. joining us is chris hayes. chris, what was that shout out to john mccain and joe lieberman about? that seemed to make john mccain unhappy? >> he did his patented grimace smile. it was a standard cap and trade bill along the framework of what would later be passed by the house of representatives after president and killed in the senate because no republics republicans would support it. john mccain and joe lieberman in three sessions introduced bills to put a cap on carbon and that

amount would have gone down year for year. what democrats tried to pass in 2009 and could not get done. it was a reminder to the republicans that there was a remarkable and in my time covering politics, lurch backwards. newt gingrich was haunted by sitting with nancy pelosi endorsing it. john mccain favored cap and trade. all of that has been undone and destroyed as the republican party has put this in this shrinking denial of the political strain. i think the president was trying to point that out and that's why john mccain felt uncomfortable. >> sitting between two democratic senators and wishing he wasn't.

he said i am not going to urge congress to act, i recognize they might not, but he threatened to go it alone and do something on his own. how significant do you think those were if congress couldn't get it done? >> this is a huge sleeper policy. the supreme court has found that there is the epa could regulate the clean air act. there could be a cap and trade kind of regime. they would have to structure it differently, which means the executive and conservatives have been fighting tooth and nail to

be sure it doesn't happen. if there is little political coverage in congress, it is the threat of uni rival action that has some republicans and lobbyists on the hill scurrying because they are worried about the president following through on that promise. i thought that was a big deal, the not so veiled threat. >> that explains about the president explaining it in speeches, so people understand it if he has to do it. thank you. we will have more on the president potentially acting outside of congress to accomplish broad climate goals. what do you think the likelihood of that is and what do you think the political impact will be?

>> i think it will be unlikely and would provoke overriding legislation to revoke it if it did. there weren't democratic votes. there weren't 45 democratic votes. as long as you have democrats from west virginia, you don't have democrats on that kind of bill. everything chris says is absolutely right and lobbyists are worried about it. it is something the president can use, but i don't think he can convince republics he really would go through with that at the scale that chris was suggesting is possible. >> it is interesting to see the president build this public case in a way he never has. >> he will try smaller pieces, but chris's point is that the president has this massive authority. if you use that authority, then you will see how fast they can write a bill. >> the next fight will be about spending again. normally that is not the most

exciting subject under the sun unless you have ezra standing by. and we have that. this is msnbc's live coverage of the state of the union. we will be right back. copd makes it hard to breathe,

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that happens sometimes. [ female announcer ] a crunch of whole grain fiber that helps keep you full. new frosted mini-wheats crunch. it's a big breakfast... [ crunch! ] ...in new a little biscuit. tonight i propose working with states to make high quality preschool available to every single child in america. every dollar we invest in high quality early childhood education can save more than $7 later on by boosting graduation rates, reducing teen pregnancy and even reducing violent crime. >> making high quality preschool available to every kid in america. that's an idea, very specific idea and quite an ambitious list of ideas in it. ezra is joining us. i understand you are feeling

rather bullish about the president's speech. why is that? >> because it gives me plenty to do. i was genuinely stunned how much was in there. think back when president obama gave his speech. this year the speech was modest. more manufacturing jobs. but then you get to the state of union and get the american jobs act which made an appearance at the conventions speech. you get early education for kids under 4, cap in carbon, increase in the minimum wage. have a bit on manufacturing, deficit, gun control. if president obama managed this

entire agenda, it would be a different country, measurable changes. leading the list was early childhood education. i brought a graph on this. the thing you should know, because this is such a huge no-brainer. this is from a conservative guy at the university of chicago. what he did was showed the kind of return on investment we get from spending at different ages. on the right is job training. education investment we do for adults. there is some return there that is not that big. on the left is early childhood education. when you get an early childhood program, you get a return on investment on that kid's life. it is like nothing else. the numbers president obama gave was up to $7 back for every dollar we put in. if we could get that done, that

is a transformtive policy. tonight i was not expecting going into the speech much beyond the level of that. >> ezra, is this the sort of policy change that there are good pilot level programs at the state where states have done this in a universal way and a national model could copy them? >> very much. there are two things we have seen on early pre-k. programs we have seen enormous effect. there have been pilots in chicago. what the obama administration is thinking about is the universal pre-k program in oklahoma. oklahoma and georgia have big pre-k programs here. red states. they have a good program study by georgetown and there are good effects.

they made sure that teachers did not get treated worse. they get the same starting salaries. i believe they are required to have a master's degree in education. when georgetown did a study, they found big changes in what those kids readiness for school coming out of that program. there are all kinds of things of how the changes persist, we haven't done enough studies yet. but we can make a huge difference. and president obama was careful to say different programs in different states to see what is working best and extend that across the country. >> seems rational when you put it that way. thanks, ezra. ed is with us also. we saw you interview nancy pelosi about the speech.

are you getting the sthaens sense that tonight's speech will change the agenda in washington? >> two issues on the table that were not expected to be as divisive as they are. firearms and immigration. one thing that needs to be done -- at least that's what democrats told me -- they want to make sure that the mojo about the economy is not slowed down at all. that the momentum towards doing something to keep the economy going isn't slowed down by these crucial issues cast upon us. the two biggest were on immigration reform and firearms. the democrats have never been, policywise, in this fogs do -- position to do something in this country. they will get comprehensive background checks, close the loophole on the gun show.

but i didn't get the sense that they would get assault weapons ban. they will push for it. there were a lot of victims in the house tonight, a lot of people touched by gun violence. this was positioned for full effect because the president is determined to get something done on this. i thought it was an emotional chamber. the politics has to be right to make a change and you have to have the right policy at the right time. the president put everything he had into doing something on firearms tonight. another thing that struck me is when the president said the state of the union is strong, there wasn't much response. we have a long way to go and democrats are nervous about the obstruction the republicans have put up time and again. if you can't cheer for minimum wage. when you can't give an applause for voting rights, the republicans are in a different

world. in the midst of all of that, here is the president striking a bipartisan tone and saying he's not giving a defense of the big three. he told the base we have come a long way, but we have to accept changes in medicare. there is no poll that says this is what the base wants or americans want. a little bit for everybody to be chewing at tonight. i thought it was a policy oriented stage, but positioned well, especially for firearms. having the visual of green ribbon. joe biden himself and all of the victims, you are right in terms of that being the touchtone. ed, thank you, my friend. if you have any plans, delay them. we will be here until 1:00 a.m. we will be right back.

it is not a bigger government we need, but a smarter government -- >> president obama speaking tonight. it was not exactly bill clinton in 1996 saying the era of big government is over, but he was using the term big government in a bad way.

joining me is karen, a current political msnbc analyst. >> democrats have been losing this argument about big versus small argument, what's effective and ineffective, smart versus snot. think about the child care education. you could make the argument that is smart. how we do spending. i hope that part of the audience for that were democrats in congress, they are going to have to get a lot smarter on how they have this fight and frame this discussion if they are going to win. >> when mark rubio gave his criticism saying that president obama is a straw man, and that

big government is the reason we have the problems we have. was he engaging in the last fight or disagreeing with president obama? >> he was fighting the last fight. they think that wins. but i would push back. budget cuts, are they any more effective or smarter? i don't think so. that is the frame to say what are going to be the smart investments for the future that make sense for the country and economy. >> thank you, karen. it is frustrating. al sharpton, it's frustrating to hear the big government/small government fight, when the fact is that the government jobs are the ones disappearing, which are holding economic numbers back in

a big way. >> that is true. the problem is we have created private sector jobs, losing public sector jobs, which is why in many latino communities and african communities are losing jobs. this fits within the budget. >> on that issue of big government/small government, were they talking past each other? >> they always talk past each other. rubio was saying he tried to put a friendly sounding handle on everything he said after the accusation stuff. he said, for example, of course solar and wind should be part of our portfolio. but republicans don't talk that way. they go straight to the coal and oil.

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why turbo? trust us. it's just better to be in front. the sonata turbo. from hyundai. good evening. we have a special post state of the union edition of hardball. the president had at times an emotional speech. he addressed guns, the working poor and education. where poor and minority workers are forced to wait for hours to cast a balance. he said within a year the forces in afghanistan would be cut in half.

he talked about putting people to work. i have called it rebuild america. the president called it fix it first. the president's strong words for congress, was that economists and sports americans agree that cuts would be a bad idea. some republicans only prevent the defense cuts is an even worse idea. he chided republicans for playing with the economy. >> the greatest country in the world cannot conduct business by drifting from one manufacturing crisis to the next, we can't do it! let's agree. let's agree right here, right now, to keep the people's government open and pay our bills on time and always uphold the full faith and credit of the united states of america.

>> here is the real music. the president's emotional high points was victims of gun violence. and voting rights, asked bipartisan on his campaign last fall as well as mitt romney's to improve the voting experience in america. >> any american no matter where they live or what their party, are denied that right because they can't afford to wait for five or six or seven hours just to cast their ballot, we are betraying our ideal. >> who can argue with that. i am joined by congressman and woman. the president talked about the need to make it easier to vote. this is a person who voted in

the later part of her life, 102 years old. here he is talking about it. >> we should follow the example of the north miami woman named desaline victor. she was told the wait to vote might be six hours. as time ticked by, her concern was not with her tired body and aching feet or whether folks like her got to have her say. people stayed in line to support her. she is 102 years old. they erupted in cheers when she put on a sticker that said "i voted." >> the efforts by the republican national committee and the right to vote to do every trick in the book. reminds me of literacy tests and poll taxes and time on

minorities, time, make them wait and they will give up. >> i remember those days also as a child, growing up in el paso, texas when my parents and grandparents could not vote. poll taxes. we have to move forward. having this woman in the audience tonight, it was just remarkable to be able to see her and to realize that she remembers those days, and that she was determined she was going to exercise her full democratic right and she did regardless of the length of time she had to wait. the president took the stand for the public to understand that every vote is cast and counted and people can vote in an easy manner. we go around the world reminding people of the fundamental right to vote in a democracy and here

in this country people have to wait for long periods of time. >> congresswoman i was in south africa when blacks were allowed to vote for the first time. it was the most inspirational trip, along with pulling down the great china wall, and the lines there were four hours. instead of proposing a bill or pushing something strong through, okay, why don't we get my lawyer and her lawyer to work it out. >> the commission is where a good idea dies.

>> john kerry told me the same thing happened when he lost the election. he said look what happened in cleveland. look at the place where you have a lot of democrats waiting and waiting and waiting the way they set up the systems. the gun motion -- here we are. many victims of gun violence in the audience including the parents of one young woman killed in california, just a mile from the president's house. listen to the president. >> her parents, nate and cleo, are in this chamber tonight along with more than two dozen lives who have been torn apart by gun violence.

they deserve a vote. they deserve a vote. they deserve a vote. debbie jeffers deserves a vote. the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and tucson and black burke and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a vote. >> not that they deserve gun safety, but a vote on it. >> i thought that was the emotional high point of the night and a brilliant piece of

political theater on the president's part and the part of the democrats that might have a practical effect. republicans were being shamed publicly into at least being willing to consider something more sweeping and deeper in terms of reforming gun laws in the united states than conventional wisdom would have you think they would allow. a bunch of democrats that had gotten this idea together, bringing victims of gun violence to the event tonight, the president put it in the speech. it was a call and response, almost religious type atmosphere. i don't usually go up to the chamber, chris, for a speech for state of a union. i haven't in a number of years. i did tonight. i'm really glad i did because you could feel the emotion in the room. and to the extent that republican members and wavering

democrats and red tape remember that tonight in the house, may give the president more room to move on guns than i thought. i'm not naive. may be hard to pass anything on the hill, but it was a brilliant way to go about it. >> it seems to me the way it will work out is the speaker says i will bring something to the floor if it passes the senate. by the time is gets through the senate, there may not be anything more than background checks. it sounds like he's not committing to a vote at all. >> the speaker must commit to a vote. the president challenged republicans and democrats tonight. he's going on the road, into this country. he was speaking tonight to the american people. they want this violence to end. in my own district we have many young people who continue to die in oakland, california as a result of gun violence. the president is calling on the

people of the united states of america not only to insist on a vote, but that these bills get passed. >> what the president had to say tonight on jobs. i have been pushing this, like bloomberg and arnold schwarzenegger have been pushing this. looks like he's moving. let's listen. >> hundreds of new jobs brought to north carolina. they said if we upgrade our infrastructure, we will bring more jobs. that's the attitude of countries around the world. i know you want to see those projects around your district, that means ribbon cuttings. tonight i propose a fix it first program. put people to work on our most urgent repairs, like the nearly

70,000 deficient bridges across the country. >> i'm hesitant to applaud because it's like the thing with guns. i hope we have a vote. where is the big money? infrastructure is expensive. yields jobs, but requires capital investment. we have 70,000 bridges. potholes, and subway systems going deeper and deeper underground. and catching up in terms of mass transit. what is this? a model city? will he do it? >> i think a lot of it, like the gun thing will end up in adds across the country. this was to members of the house of representatives to shame and embarrass them. the whole joke about going to

the ribbon cutting, because you have to do these projects in a way that the districts benefit. he was saying there is something in it for you. they are the road blocks. >> chris, there is no lonny r money in it. he can talk about the fix it first program, but he didn't put a dollar on a and it is my understanding it is not a huge stimulus. he is not going to convince congress to put up money for another infrastructure program. so cooperative efforts between business and government, private sector and universities, that type of thing -- bill clinton is talking about this -- which takes time and can work. but the notion he will have another big infrastructure program through this congress is

a pipe dream. >> that's too bad. thank you both for coming on. coming up, the dueling responses from the gop. mark rubio and paul for the tea party. this is "hardball." [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal.

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if more evidence was necessary, tonight's competing gop responses prove how split the republican party has become. first senator marco rubio who was elected in the tea party. his refrain, more government is the problem. >> more government isn't going to create opportunities.

it's going to limit them. >> but in contradition, he talks about how government programs have helped him and his family. >> i believe in federal financial aid. i couldn't have gone to college without it. and medicare provided my father the care he needed to be treated for cancer and ultimately die with dignity and provides the care my mother receives now. >> rubio isn't enough for the tea party anymore. up next was rand paul with a tea party note. >> we demand he adheres to the constitution. we won't let him trend on the second amendment. we will stand up against

excessive government power wherever we see it. we cannot and will not allow any president to act as if he were a king. >> i am joined by jenny and martin. jenny, why do you think there needed to be two speeches from the right? wasn't the republicans' response adequate? >> thanks for having me. both have sent us almost $17 billion into defendant and i think the tea party decided to have this response so there was somebody advocating tea party values. george w., i voted for the guy thinking he would be common sense, why didn't he veto a single spending bill. he didn't even get into the iraq war which was unnecessary. why did he spend every dollar he got his hands on if he was a republican?

>> i don't know why he did it. i know that spending and the spending continued since then are causing major problems for our economy. americans are concerned about the economy, about getting back to work and about the deficit. >> who is paying for the prescription drugs bill? i always wondered who would pay for that. i thought it was put on the books. >> i think we are all paying for the prescription drug bill. it is the debt we are racking up and we are sending that debt on to future generations. we are kicking the can down the road instead of taking responsibility ourselves. >> talk to my daughter about that. it's one of her concerns. david, the president gave what i thought was a pretty good speech. it was hard for me until the very end to know where his passion lay, clearly on guns and

voting rights, but there was so much in there in terms of infrastructure and immigration, i didn't feel the pulse. >> i thought it was a powerful, progressive agenda he was laying out for the second term. he wasn't trying to forge deals and force compromises they have said they were not interested in. he was trying to lead. saying there is more than the death -- debt. >> on guns he said give me a vote. >> you can even vote no. chris, you have been talking about bridges for the last two years now. >> where is the money? show me the money. >> listen, you can't have -- jenny and i are talking debt, debt, debt. >> i want to know what we are doing in investments. >> you lost the last election on that point. the american people are not debt fixated.

they want to see investments and education. that's what this election was fought about. >> the polling from the pugh foundation from jan show the economy, debt are the top issues. >> economy -- >> yes, the economy. >> that's about jobs. they don't favor the rand paul type of tax on medicare. or paul ryan. one of the most ludicrous things is rubio said he went to school on federal loans and said what should we do for kids today? give them more information about what might happen if they take out loans. that doesn't help out kids. it was absurd. >> let jenny talk. >> all we are saying in tea party patriots is asking

government to cut one penny out of every dollar. if they would do that, we could be at a balanced budget in six years. it's not drastic and will not harmony of us to do that. we are not talking about that much money. it wouldn't take long to get our budget balanced so we could start paying down the debt. >> madeway through the republican response, mark rubio made a move, it had only to do with showmanship. let's wash. watch. >> nothing touched me more than the false promises the president laid out tonight. >> what do you make, david? >> he started out saying the president is wrong because he believes the economy tanked because there wasn't high enough taxes and government. that's not what the government

believes. the tea party crowd, if you ask jenny, have never come to terms with what happened in 2007 and 2008, the corporate abuses that led to main street being brought down. they talked extensively about ruling the main street so they don't screw the tea party. nothing about the mess. we goss it. >> i was trying to have some fun with david, but he's at high speed. let me ask you about this study. right now the federal government collects about 15% of our money and spends about 25%. all you hear from the tea party is cut the spending. how can you balance it around 20 unless you raise taxes.

>> only 15% of the gdp is being taxed. can you in the tea party pay for what you want -- >> i think there is agreement here, when we have unemployment that goes up in the month of january, gdp contracted in the fourth quarter of last year and on the day that those numbers are coming out, wall street goes up. people in wall street are benefiting as the rest of us are -- >> that's good policy, i like that rhetoric, too. you said cut a penny out of the government. that will leave the government spending above 20%. why can't we raise 20% in revenue? you don't want to cut it enough to get down to 15%, do you? >> i want to kout it so we have a balanced budget.

we are putting the burden on our children and we can't afford to do that. that's why we start it. >> chris, here's another question. if you are saying wall street is doing so well, then why do all of the tea party parties oppose barack obama when he wants the wealthy to pay more. >> i want to get rid of the crummey deals. the establishment on both sides make deals that benefits each other. they take care of each other and not taking care of america and the hard working american people. >> stop, david. she is on the show. she has the right to speak. >> sure. >> jenny i believe you have an inconsistency on how we pay. if you look at medicaid and medicare and defense, that costs

a lot of money. everybody would like to cut spending, but you are not willing to equalize spending with revenues. that's my thought. come back and we will debate it again. jenny martin for the tea party. thanks, david. you were a little brash tonight. thanks for coming on and staying up so late. we want to know how you would have finished this statement this year. take a picture of yourself and send it to us. or upload it directly to facebook.com/msnbc. then vote for your favorite. we will have much more of what the president said throughout the hour. up next, the manhunt in southern

california, for former police officer dorner. first kid you ready? [ female announcer ] second kid by their second kid, every mom is an expert and more likely to choose luvs. after thousands of diaper changes, they know what works. luvs lock away wetness better than huggies for a fraction of the cost live, learn, & get luvs.

the other big story tonight is the manhunt for former police officer dorner. he is accused of killing two police officers. there was a cabin burned to the

ground, but no word on whether dorner was in there. john joins us. always looking for the czar. we don't have any idea whether mr. dorner was in that cabin when it was burnt down. >> the spokesman for the san diego sheriffs office said they are confident they believe that the suspect, who they believe to be officer dorner, they are confident he is in there. they don't think he got out. they had enough of a cordon around it that they do believe his body is in there. they haven't been able to go in because it's still too hot. also they believe there is a lot of live ammunition in there. when live ammunition gets hot in a fire like that, it goes off.

so they were waiting until the fire cools down and they can get in there. they don't know how soon that will be. they hope to identify the body through dental records and hope to do that on site. >> do we know what caused the fire? >> our friends at knbc here in los angeles are reporting that law enforcement officials tell them the sequence of events was something like this. they broke windows, approached the house, broke windows, fired tear gas in. used some sort of communication system, whether a loud speaker or something, we don't know, to tell dorner the place was surrounded and he should give himself up. they heard nothing so they used an armored bearcat to break down walls. in that process they heard a gunshot from inside and then a

fire broke out. now we don't know what caused that fire to break out. was it a tear gas canister that went in? was it as they were breaking walls, a propane gas tank which the owner did have in the cabin, there might have been a spark. once the fire started they decided it was not safe to go in and to let the fire burn itself out. >> with the suspect shooting at the police through the cabin up until that time? >> they said there is some confusion when the shooting started, but the only thing they got back out of that cabin was gunfire. they say there was no communication out from the cabin. the only thing they got out was gunfire. they can't even estimate how many rounds were fired.

they say that it was some descriptions of it as being automatic, semi-automatic. >> john, you have been great reporting this. i hope everybody reads the paper. what a saga. tomorrow morning we will be reading two big stories in the country, what the president had to say and what happened to christopher dorner. thanks so much. up next, back to the president's state of the union speech. and he is saying it's time to rebuild america. that's a phrase we have been using here. we are going to talk to an expert, is he satisfied with what the president said about rebuilding america. you are watching "hardball." >> tonight i propose a fix it first program to put people to

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most of us agree that a plan to reduce the deficit must be part of our agenda. let's be clear. deficit alone is not a plan. a growing economy that creates good middle class jobs. that must be the north star that guides our efforts. >> the president took aim at republicans who think they can easily trim the deficit through cuts. >> we can't ask senior citizens and working families to shoulder the entire burden.

we want to grow the middle class by shifting the tax care on to families struggling or forcing there to be more layoffs of teachers or cops. we have to understand we can't just cut our way to prosperity. broad-based economic growth requires a balanced approach with spending cuts and revenue and with everybody doing their fair share. that's the approach i offer tonight. >> i have two political analysts with me tonight. i want to start with governor rendell. the democrats believe government has to do something,

infrastructure, has to build and get the economy to grow. unemployment is at 7.9. democrats are up against the republicans which the only purpose is to cut government spending. that seems to be the philosophy. they are at war with each other. >> that's the big clash. everyone sort of agrees, if you get them in a moment of truth, that we have to do long-term debt reduction. but at the same time we have to do short-term things to invest, create jobs in infrastructure and development. the president was right in talking about investing in research and development. we get those dollars back 100-fold.

this is a $50 billion program to fix the nation's bridges. it is a good program and will help. but it is a drop in the bucket. the american society of civilian engineers says we have to pay $1.1 billion between now and 2020 just to make them passable. so it would be suggested to impanel a commission to enhance government, state and local investments. there are ways to do this, but we have to have a real long-term plan. >> the challenge here -- ed koch just passed away. a powerful mayor, but what he could do was hang on.

new york, the subway needs to be rebuilt, everybody below manhattan needs to be fixed. now the government seems to be operating like that. >> travel, go to other countries and see the infrastructure they are building, the airports -- >> france. >> everywhere you go. spend a week and a half in china. it is amazing. it used to be a bipartisan issue, infrastructure. used to sail through. you tried to figure the proper amount of money to spend. but it is penny wise and pound foolish not to repair your bridges and repair them. it's a recipe for decline. >> governor christy has made his name by saying i'm not going to

fix the lincoln tunnel or rebuild or open wider passes from new jersey to new york city which is their essential trade route. >> new jersey is 37th or 38th in job creation because infrastruk structure is a way to increase trade. there are countless bridges that support i-95 on its way to philadelphia. to repair those bridges is a $4 billion price tag. the city and state doesn't have the money. it has to come from somewhere. >> that's from florida to the top of the country. >> it went down three days and in those days, 180,000 vehicles a day go over those bridges. >> to make your point whshgs we would go to florida on a college trip and see those white owned signs.

there wasn't stripes. >> it was a speed trap, a joke. but it took the republicans and lincoln going back to a civil war era. governor, what do you think the $50 million will do? >> it's a drop in the bucket, but it will help on the problem of bridges. and it is a serious problem. democrats and republicans alike have to understand if we are going to be exceptional, we will have to invest in our own future, education, energy. the president has it right, but we have to do it in the right scale. >> i think we need heft. remember that "where's the beef?" >> thank you. up next, the most dramatic

moment in the speech tonight, the president's calling for gun safety. this is "hardball." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.

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we are back. we saw a powerful image tonight, more than 30 victims of gun violence. president obama seized the moment. >> the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and blackburg and tucson and the countless other communities ripped open by the gun deserve a boat. >> nearly everyone in the room were on their feet, probably because of the people in the room with them. i have the victoria and the group of three with me.

did the president bring it home? >> i think he brought it home. that was the emotional heart and soul of the night, chris. he will not get everything he wants, but what he's doing is asking for all of it. he's saying you don't have to vote yes. you can vote no, but he wants to get them on the record on every single piece of legislation. we have money putting money in. we have mayor bloomberg, gaby gifford, and talking about pendleton and bringing home the issue of urban gun violence which we lose focus on when we loaning at newtown -- looking at

newtown. it is a coalition. i thought it was a very powerful moment. >> let's go to the mayor. it seems the republicans are going to play a game here. there are a few suburb annites. >> all he has to do is bring the background check to the house. what do you think on the part of that strategy? will bainer get away with it? >> that's what he will do. he will try as best he can to keep his people from having to cast a vote. mr. obama, on the other hand, have called him out.

tonight that rhetoric by obama was a shout out, you are going to have to let people say yes or no on that issue. i believe when he moves around the country, he will echo that and that will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the republicans and speaker. >> that's the question. will there be a vote? >> i think the mayor is right. the mayor and everyone remembers watergate, release the tapes, release the tapes. a minimalist. release the evidence, give us our day in court. it seemed to be a minimal demand. >> chris, when we are talking about gun violence, my concern is at the state level because that's where the gun legislation gets passed. we have some of the most liberal laws when it comes to guns. you can carry a gun in the open.

you don't need to have a permit. >> but you are never going to win with those cowboys, are you? >> we are. >> they want to carry guns and holsters into hotels. >> we need to go to state capitals to change that. >> big cities can pass a tough gun law. and then what happens is the guns are brought in from somehow else. this question -- let's start at the top here, joan. what do you think will get done. i'm most confident that the president will bring the troops home from afghanistan because he can do it without a vote. republicans have a need to do something, and democrats have a need to do something. if they can work together and get a bill that even the hispanic community could say this is better than what we have got because in the long run we get to be american. what else do you think he will

get done other than immigration and bringing troops home from afghanistan? >> he will get something done on guns. i was excited to hear him talk about universal preschool. that's important. will he get that this year in the first term? i don't know how many he will get. but to layout that we can't be happy with k-12 any more is huge. he is laying out what the country needs and support behind it. >> do you think the two campaigns can get together from last september? fun to turn it over to the lawyer, but you are a lawyer and know how it works. do you think they can stop this voter suppression around the country?

>> i don't think he can expect anything from those two people. he would love to have them talk to each other, but they are on the other side the aisle on this issue. i believe the president can be optimistic about far more than talked about. preschool i believe is one of the things he will get. i think the troops coming home from afghanistan. i think there will be some gun control, maybe not by congress, but his signature. i think it will be something on immigration, far more than the words tonight. i think he will go to cities and mayors and some governor, like my governor jerry brown and you will see a ton of infrastructure being financed by bonds and other means. that will be a package he is selling around the country. >> you are a happy man tonight, mayor.

i have never seen such optimism from you. thank you. victoria? >> he made a big deal about climate. i think that will be in addition to immigration, another big push. and i think this will fall under the executive line of his power. >> thanks so much. nice so have you all staying up late. that's it for this special edition of "hardball." when we continue, our coverage continues with rachel maddow. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it

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a speech touched on a number of similar policy issues at the top of the second-term agenda and that made news of. he used the state of the union to tout the end of the iraq war. tonight he had specific news on the other war, on afghanistan. >> already we have brought home 33,000 of our brave servicemen and women. this spring, forces will move into a support role while afghan security forces take the lead. tonight i can announce that over

the next year, another 34,000 american troops will come home from afghanistan. this drawdown will continue. by the end of next year, the war in afghanistan will be over. [ applause ] >> 34,000 u.s. troops will come home from afghanistan over the next year. that was news. the president made news on the domestic policy front, calling for an increase in the federal minimum wage to $9 per hour. he also addressed what has become a partisan issue across the country. the small "d" democratic act of voting itself. >> defending our freedom is not just the job of our military alone. we must all do our part to make sure that our god-given rights are protected here at home. that includes one of the most fundamental rights of democracy, the right to vote.

now -- when any american, no matter where they live or what their party are denied that right, because they can't afford to wait for five, six, seven hours to cast their ballot, we are betraying our ideals. [ applause ] >> so tonight i am announcing a non-partisan commission to improve the voting experience in america. it definitely needs improvement. >> perhaps the emotional crescendo of the speech happens toward the end when the protest president pivoted to gun violence. 31 members of congress, all on the democratic side, brought to the speech somebody affected by gun violence. the president appealed for a vote in congress on gun safety by making reference to a number of those in attendance, including the parents of a

chicago honor student, a teenage girl, 15 years old, shot and killed days after attending the president's inauguration. watch. >> her parents are in this chamber tonight along with more than two dozen americans whose lives have been torn apart by gun violence. they deserved a vote. [ applause ] >> they deserve a vote. they deserve a vote. gaby geferreds deserves a vote. the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of all laura deserve a vote.

the families of oak creek and tucson and blackburn and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a simple vote. >> he also called for comprehensive immigration reform and got bipartisan reform on that. he called for change on climate change. the severe weather is not come in his words, a freak coincidence. he pledged more transparency on the issue of counter-terrorism. shortly after he wrapped up the union address, the republican response was given by marco review. some of his rhetorical points were probably an awkward, big, physical lurch for a drink of water. there was a republican response to the republican response to the president's state of the union address. there was a tea party response delivered by republican senator

rand call of kentucky on line after marco rubio finished his response. he said today that he did not want the republicans to be the opposition but for them to be the alternative. if you did not like him, they were putting up an alternative to the alternative kind of like off broadway and off, off broadway. there is lots to discuss. i want to go to the reverend al sharpton and lawrence o'donnell. what are we hearing from the president that indicates any difference in approach to a second term as compared to his first? >> he was very clear he would be more aggressive. he talked a lot about the executive action he would take. he would go around congress. i don't think we heard that as much in the first term. i think he was very specific in how he wanted to go several courses. what was billed as a rebuttal

but never rebutted, because mr. rubio mentioned immigration, never said how the republicans wanted to have immigration. he says his parents were immigrants, and that was it. he said he went to school on government money but is against government. aside from the awkward drink of water, i think his real problem is that it was the wrong night, wrong city. tuesday night in washington, wednesday night in new york. there is a place called the apollo. amateur night on wednesday night at the apollo. >> ouch. that hurt me in the crossfire. lawrence o'donnell. >> it was a major proposal that he kept under a certain wracked by not mentioning the number. he said that he was willing, in this negotiation, to avoid the sequestered and offered to the republicans' medicare cuts. he did not specify an amount,

just the same amount that the bulls commission wanted. he suggested arriving at them in very vague ways, one having more affluent seniors play more. there are a variety of ways to do that. one of them, probably were most of the savings would be, to change the nature of medicare payments from a fee-for-service system, which is very reassuring to the patience, to something that he was very vague about but was probably an overall fee for a patient in which the doctor, many would argue, begins to ration care in order to make a profit off of this limited amount of money that i could get from any individual patient. there is a lot of tension in the kinds of savings the president was talking about for both sides. republicans would be more open to it than republicans -- democrats, but that was the key proposal he made tonight.

he was so sensitive about it that he had to disguise it. it will be a major story tomorrow. >> let's put that to robert gibbs. he is willing to mix it up with us because it's part of his job now. on what lawrence was just saying on that proposal and that being something that might be very hard for democrats to swallow, is the president saying what he will do to entitlements? >> rachel, i think the president has always been up front that we have to make common sense adjustments to medicare. i don't believe that what lawrence is talking about, something that would fundamentally change, as you heard him say the progress that we has made to american seniors.

i am reminded of the story on the front page of "the new york times" about the fact that health care being treated differently and treating the patient rather than saying been paid for amputating the leg of a diabetic we pay the doctor to treat that patient and prevent them from having diabetes. those are the kinds of things we can see great savings in the health care system, but i do not think the president will fundamentally restructure medicare in the way that lawrence is discussing. >> what do you make of marco rubio's charge tonight? he specifically said that he should not be talking about what he likes about medicare. anybody not talking about what is wrong with medicare is constructing it to bankruptcy. that is very consistent with what mitt romney charged. >> save a few gauzy lines about immigration reform. that could have been a speech delivered by paul ryan or mitt romney the day before the election, an election, quite honestly, they lost decisively. it really reminds me that all of this effort that is going on in the republican party really is a marketing scheme.

it's really about changing the packaging. it's really about putting the candy bar in a different wrapper. the very same thing that romney said the day before the election, they lost decisively. marco rubio picked up the mantle and one more time leading off with the fact that the president believes that the private enterprise system is what causes our faults in america. i will note that the only lurch left was to get a bottle of water. again, i was really struck by the fact that as you mentioned, the president outlined a robust american agenda. don't misunderstand him when he

says they deserved a vote. he wasn't just speaking about the parents in that room. i think he was speaking about all american citizens and all the proposals that he outlined, whether it's the minimum wage, clean energy, a whole host of these things. those proposals deserve a boat. that is what we want to see. the contrast of marco rubio giving a personal speech directed not at the country but very personally at the president, i think, is a huge missed opportunity for the republican party. they have to do something differently, or they will continue to lose national elections. >> whether or not you like republican policy ideas or vice versa, but contrast of the president talking and marco rubio talking about the president did not serve him well. >> at the end of the speech, again, it was almost as if it was two different speeches. rubio wants to take it big, let's come together and work on these things together. is this the same guy that was just basically blaming the president for everything, including bad weather? it just seemed very, very -- it

will be seen as very off-putting to the people that live in this country and decide elections. it huge missed opportunity. >> thank you. pleasure to have you here tonight. >> thank you. >> i think rubio -- it sounds primitive as well -- to the caucus voters. i don't think it was aimed at the country. he was speaking to the base of the republican party that does not like the president. he did not lose any votes from those people. he did not solve their problem, but he got a good chunk of it for his purposes. >> there is a question as to whether or not he is has a message. >> he did not get there. >> let's go to choctaw. he joins us from washington. what did they want members of congress to take away from this? >> well, they never said they wanted him to take away saying we wanted to have you have a vote on this. they kept telegraphing, this is

a speech that will be about the economy. it was technically. you can't help but take away that the message that this speech is going to be remembered for is a very emotional ending, one of the most emotional state of the unions, which are not normally emotional addresses. that will end up being the takeaway. they did want to send this message to congress to say this is not the consolatory obama that came in january 2011 with that need that he knew he was chasing. that he was going to have to work together with the republicans. a somewhat toned down barack obama from the 2012 state of the union trying to talk to the voters, set the tone for the campaign. he wanted to deliver this. hey, guys, we have to do some of these votes.

i wonder, they have a lot of what i would call very well pull tests. the issue that they hit on on education and the economy in particular, things like universal prepaid, raising the minimum wage, these are tangible items that average, middle-class families listening to this , speech. i have a feeling that could resonate very well. they accomplish what they wanted to do, which is talk about the economy in simpler terms over the head of washington. >> chuck todd, thank you for joining us. >> all right. >> joining us from san antonio, texas, the mayor of san antonio. mayor castro, thank you for joining us. >> let me ask you about the word comprehensive. we have all been if through

watching the attempt by the government to reform immigration back in the '80s under reagan. what stopped it from being affected is that it was never enforced. it really wasn't given any credit. when we say the phrase, comprehensive, what does that mean to you? >> what it means is that it has at least three things, first, that it will continue to enhance the security of our borders, even though as president obama has pointed out, that has been enhanced tremendously over the past few years. secondly, when an employer hire someone, they can no that person is here legally. they will be held accountable. fired, and this is the part of that is at issue here, that we do something positive to put the 11 million folks who are undocumented on a pathway to citizenship after they have paid a fine, paid back taxes, learned english and gone to the back of the line.

>> what will be the toughest part of that to win? >> oh, there's no question the toughest part is the issue of a pathway to citizenship. unfortunately it seems as though what some of the house republicans want is to create a permanent subclass of folks who would not be citizens, maybe not even lawful, permanent residents. i thought that the ending of president obama's speech in calling the country together but also using the word citizen and saying that is what we are made of and we are, that has a lot of resonance as debate comprehensive reform. >> those opposing a full pass way to citizenship, they don't like voting? >> well probably some of the

folks who are absolutely opposed to citizenship, that's at the top of their mind, sure. i agree with that. >> what is your bet right now? based on what the president said tonight i think we will have less troops in afghanistan. that will be real. he is completely in charge of that. immigration looks to me like a great prospect for this year, the great hope. republicans want the issue behind them because it has hurt them at the polls. tissues -- democrats believe in the issue. the unions, i have never understood their position on this. do you think it will ever get done? >> i believe that it will get done. i believe that the republican party knows that if it doesn't get done that what they saw in 2012 will happen again in 2014, 2016 and beyond that.

as i said last week when i testified in front of the house judiciary committee, america is watching these legislators on this boat. >> thank you very much, mayor castro, from san antonio. >> thank you. >> much to report and analyze. policies and the politics in the big speech and in the response from marco rubio .this is a bill live coverage of the 2013 state of the union. >> after a decade of grinding war, our brave men and women in uniform are coming home. first kid you ready? [ female announcer ] second kid

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we know our economy is stronger when we reward an honest day's work with honest wages. today, a full-time worker making a winning wage earns $14,500 a year. even with the tax relief we put in place. a family with two kids that earns the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. that's wrong. that's why i sense the last time we raised the minimum wage, 19 states chose to bump there is even higher. tonight, let's declare that in

the wealthiest nation on earth, no one who works full time should have to live in poverty and raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour. >> that was the big policy surprise of tonight's state of the union. president obama calling on congress to raise the federal minimum wage from where it is right now, $7.25 to $9 an hour. alex wagner joins us now. i think the president made news on this point. is this a realistic policy vote? >> it was really shocking that republicans couldn't stand up for equal pay, couldn't stand up for a fair voting system in the u.s., to see them agree to $9 an hour would seem to me to be a jump. at the same time, this is the story of america right now, one of the most under discussed issues in the country, the fact

that one in two american families live at the poverty line. the poverty line is 23,000, $24,000 a year. to some degree, it should not be shocking that they will take this up as a matter of discourse. at the same time, of course it was. we have come so far away from the subject of poverty and mobility. it was a really important moment for the state of the union. >> something they discovered over the past decade was when you put the minimum wage, you raise the minimum wage on the ballot at the state level, not only does it pass, but it passes by a lot and with so much wind in its sales that it tends to drive up democratic voter turnout. progressive groups have always seen this as a sleeper issue. if democrats embrace it, it might have brought electoral effect. is that driving any of this? >> sure.

look, what we know right now is that he is thinking about the country. that is a result of the fact that he is not enamored of washington and washington politics. it has not been good for him the past four years. he is talking to real americans and knows that wages have stagnated. that is in parallel with labor unions. middle-class wages since 1979 have gone nowhere. this is a winning issue, and it's weird to me that more democrats don't take this up. one of my favorite tweets of the net was that president obama is talking about a nondollar minimum wage. he was the last person to take this up and be seen as a fighter in the middle class in wages and in talking about poverty as a problem that needed to be addressed. >> democrats in the states where they have championed this are smiling over this tonight, both as policy and politics. thank you.

very smart. >> thanks, rachel. >> joining us now, senior red house adviser to president obama. good evening miss jarrett. >> good evening, al and everybody else on the panel. the president surprised everyone by calling for a minimum wage of $9. is there a white house plan, given what we know the president is proposing to congress, immigration, gun legislation and other measures, is there a direct plan to go after raising the minimum wage? >> absolutely. he will take his case to the american people as he did tonight. he will be traveling around our country. what i really thought was that he was speaking directly into the living rooms of so many people. his message really resonated. i think he nailed the answer to the three questions, what are we

going to do to bring jobs back, how are we going to equip our work force to be prepared for the jobs of tomorrow, and how are you going to earn a good living? those are the questions the american people wanted to hear the answers to. he gave robust answers, and we have to turn those words into action. >> i know he is doing a conference call with a lot of his volunteers around the country tonight, tomorrow going to north carolina, atlanta, then chicago. is the strategy for the president to galvanize americans to put pressure on the congress to deal with some of what he laid out tonight? >> absolutely. he completed that phone call, the first phone call he made after his speech. he said to his supporters, i want to speak to you because i need your help. in order for us to do what we have in store, we need to make sure the american people are involved and committed. that is what he began tonight

and will continue as he travels throughout the week. yes, he will continue to work with congress to join him in this effort, but very importantly he has to take the message directly to the american people and ask for their support and help. >> he ended with a crescendo of a very emotional field around gun legislation and around voting. we noticed when he referred to the 102-year-old lady, you were in the box with her. what was the mood of those that were seated in the first lady's box, family members of victims of gun violence and this lady that stood in line 102 years old, to vote. give us some mood as the president really drew on the emotions of both of these issues.

>> as you said, it was very emotional. these are people who have suffered and sacrificed and are resilient and a determined. when you hear their stories, when you see a woman who is 102 and stands in line for hours, traveling to washington. there she is sitting in a box with the first lady, meeting the president, who took a picture with her. he let everyone after the speech. it sends a message about the strength of our country, the resilience of our country. ordinary people can do extraordinary things. everyone left committed to action, and that is the momentum we have to build. we have to keep it going. we cannot call it one night's activity. we have to pass legislation, and everybody has to do what they can to move our country in a positive direction. 

i urge this congress to get together and pursue a bipartisan climate for change, like the one that joe lieberman and john mccain worked on. but if congress won't act, i will. i will direct my cabinet to come up with executive actions we can take now and in the future to reduce pollution, repair our communities for climate change and speed the transition to more sustainable energy. >> president obama called for action on climate change saying he wants congress to act and if they don't, he will. joining us is chris hayes. chris, what was that shout out to john mccain and joe lieberman about? that seemed to make john mccain unhappy? >> he did his patented grimace smile. it was a standard cap and trade bill along the framework of what would later be passed by the house of representatives after president and killed in the senate because no republics republicans would support it. john mccain and joe lieberman in three sessions introduced bills to put a cap on carbon and that amount would have gone down year for year. what democrats tried to pass in 2009 and could not get done.

it was a reminder to the republicans that there was a remarkable and in my time covering politics, lurch backwards. newt gingrich was haunted by sitting with nancy pelosi endorsing it. john mccain favored cap and trade. all of that has been undone and destroyed as the republican party has put this in this shrinking denial of the political strain. i think the president was trying to point that out and that's why john mccain felt uncomfortable. >> sitting between two democratic senators and wishing he wasn't.

he said i am not going to urge congress to act, i recognize they might not, but he threatened to go it alone and do something on his own. how significant do you think those were if congress couldn't get it done? >> this is a huge sleeper policy. the supreme court has found that there is the epa could regulate the clean air act. there could be a cap and trade kind of regime. they would have to structure it differently, which means the executive and conservatives have been fighting tooth and nail to be sure it doesn't happen. if there is little political coverage in congress, it is the threat of uni rival action that has some republicans and lobbyists on the hill scurrying because they are worried about

the president following through on that promise. i thought that was a big deal, the not so veiled threat. >> that explains about the president explaining it in speeches, so people understand it if he has to do it. thank you. we will have more on the president potentially acting outside of congress to accomplish broad climate goals. what do you think the likelihood of that is and what do you think the political impact will be? >> i think it will be unlikely and would provoke overriding legislation to revoke it if it did. there weren't democratic votes.

there weren't 45 democratic votes. as long as you have democrats from west virginia, you don't have democrats on that kind of bill. everything chris says is absolutely right and lobbyists are worried about it. it is something the president can use, but i don't think he can convince republics he really would go through with that at the scale that chris was suggesting is possible. >> it is interesting to see the president build this public case in a way he never has. >> he will try smaller pieces, but chris's point is that the president has this massive authority. if you use that authority, then you will see how fast they can write a bill. >> the next fight will be about spending again. normally that is not the most exciting subject under the sun unless you have ezra standing by.

and we have that. this is msnbc's live coverage of the state of the union. we will be right back. this is flo. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to. you're always there for me. shh! i'll get you a rental car. i could also use an umbrella. fall in love with progressive's claims service.

tonight i propose working with states to make high quality preschool available to every single child in america. every dollar we invest in high

quality early childhood education can save more than $7 later on by boosting graduation rates, reducing teen pregnancy and even reducing violent crime. >> making high quality preschool available to every kid in america. that's an idea, very specific idea and quite an ambitious list of ideas in it. ezra is joining us. i understand you are feeling rather bullish about the president's speech. why is that? >> because it gives me plenty to do. i was genuinely stunned how much was in there. think back when president obama gave his speech. this year the speech was modest.

more manufacturing jobs. but then you get to the state of union and get the american jobs act which made an appearance at the conventions speech. you get early education for kids under 4, cap in carbon, increase in the minimum wage. have a bit on manufacturing, deficit, gun control. if president obama managed this entire agenda, it would be a different country, measurable changes. leading the list was early childhood education. i brought a graph on this. the thing you should know, because this is such a huge no-brainer. this is from a conservative guy at the university of chicago. what he did was showed the kind of return on investment we get from spending at different ages. on the right is job training.

education investment we do for adults. there is some return there that is not that big. on the left is early childhood education. when you get an early childhood program, you get a return on investment on that kid's life. it is like nothing else. the numbers president obama gave was up to $7 back for every dollar we put in. if we could get that done, that is a transformtive policy. tonight i was not expecting going into the speech much beyond the level of that. >> ezra, is this the sort of policy change that there are good pilot level programs at the state where states have done this in a universal way and a national model could copy them? >> very much. there are two things we have seen on early pre-k. programs we have seen enormous

effect. there have been pilots in chicago. what the obama administration is thinking about is the universal pre-k program in oklahoma. oklahoma and georgia have big pre-k programs here. red states. they have a good program study by georgetown and there are good effects. they made sure that teachers did not get treated worse. they get the same starting salaries. i believe they are required to have a master's degree in education. when georgetown did a study, they found big changes in what those kids readiness for school coming out of that program. there are all kinds of things of how the changes persist, we haven't done enough studies yet. but we can make a huge

difference. and president obama was careful to say different programs in different states to see what is working best and extend that across the country. >> seems rational when you put it that way. thanks, ezra. ed is with us also. we saw you interview nancy pelosi about the speech. are you getting the sthaens sense that tonight's speech will change the agenda in washington? >> two issues on the table that were not expected to be as divisive as they are. firearms and immigration. one thing that needs to be done -- at least that's what democrats told me -- they want to make sure that the mojo about the economy is not slowed down at all.

that the momentum towards doing something to keep the economy going isn't slowed down by these crucial issues cast upon us. the two biggest were on immigration reform and firearms. the democrats have never been, policywise, in this fogs do -- position to do something in this country. they will get comprehensive background checks, close the loophole on the gun show. but i didn't get the sense that they would get assault weapons ban. they will push for it. there were a lot of victims in the house tonight, a lot of people touched by gun violence. this was positioned for full effect because the president is determined to get something done on this. i thought it was an emotional chamber. the politics has to be right to make a change and you have to have the right policy at the right time.

the president put everything he had into doing something on firearms tonight. another thing that struck me is when the president said the state of the union is strong, there wasn't much response. we have a long way to go and democrats are nervous about the obstruction the republicans have put up time and again. if you can't cheer for minimum wage. when you can't give an applause for voting rights, the republicans are in a different world. in the midst of all of that, here is the president striking a bipartisan tone and saying he's not giving a defense of the big three. he told the base we have come a long way, but we have to accept changes in medicare. there is no poll that says this is what the base wants or americans want. a little bit for everybody to be chewing at tonight. i thought it was a policy

oriented stage, but positioned well, especially for firearms. having the visual of green ribbon. joe biden himself and all of the victims, you are right in terms of that being the touchtone. ed, thank you, my friend. if you have any plans, delay them. we will be here until 1:00 a.m. we will be right back.

it is not a bigger government we need, but a smarter government -- >> president obama speaking tonight. it was not exactly bill clinton in 1996 saying the era of big government is over, but he was using the term big government in a bad way. joining me is karen, a current political msnbc analyst. >> democrats have been losing this argument about big versus small argument, what's effective and ineffective, smart versus snot. think about the child care education. you could make the argument that is smart. how we do spending. i hope that part of the audience

for that were democrats in congress, they are going to have to get a lot smarter on how they have this fight and frame this discussion if they are going to win. >> when mark rubio gave his criticism saying that president obama is a straw man, and that big government is the reason we have the problems we have. was he engaging in the last fight or disagreeing with president obama? >> he was fighting the last fight. they think that wins. but i would push back. budget cuts, are they any more effective or smarter?

i don't think so. that is the frame to say what are going to be the smart investments for the future that make sense for the country and economy. >> thank you, karen. it is frustrating. al sharpton, it's frustrating to hear the big government/small government fight, when the fact is that the government jobs are the ones disappearing, which are holding economic numbers back in a big way. >> that is true. the problem is we have created private sector jobs, losing public sector jobs, which is why in many latino communities and african communities are losing jobs. this fits within the budget.

>> on that issue of big government/small government, were they talking past each other? >> they always talk past each other. rubio was saying he tried to put a friendly sounding handle on everything he said after the accusation stuff. he said, for example, of course solar and wind should be part of our portfolio. but republicans don't talk that way. they go straight to the coal and oil. >> msnbc's coverage continues in a minute. you are not allowed to go to bed yet. in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it

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good evening. we have a special post state of the union edition of hardball. the president had at times an emotional speech. he addressed guns, the working poor and education. where poor and minority workers are forced to wait for hours to cast a balance. he said within a year the forces in afghanistan would be cut in half.

he talked about putting people to work. i have called it rebuild america. the president called it fix it first. the president's strong words for congress, was that economists and sports americans agree that cuts would be a bad idea. some republicans only prevent the defense cuts is an even worse idea. he chided republicans for playing with the economy. >> the greatest country in the world cannot conduct business by drifting from one manufacturing crisis to the next, we can't do it! let's agree. let's agree right here, right now, to keep the people's government open and pay our bills on time and always uphold the full faith and credit of the united states of america.

>> here is the real music. the president's emotional high points was victims of gun violence. and voting rights, asked bipartisan on his campaign last fall as well as mitt romney's to improve the voting experience in america. >> any american no matter where they live or what their party, are denied that right because they can't afford to wait for five or six or seven hours just to cast their ballot, we are betraying our ideal. >> who can argue with that. i am joined by congressman and woman. the president talked about the need to make it easier to vote. this is a person who voted in the later part of her life, 102 years old.

here he is talking about it. >> we should follow the example of the north miami woman named desaline victor. she was told the wait to vote might be six hours. as time ticked by, her concern was not with her tired body and aching feet or whether folks like her got to have her say. people stayed in line to support her. she is 102 years old. they erupted in cheers when she put on a sticker that said "i voted." >> the efforts by the republican national committee and the right to vote to do every trick in the book. reminds me of literacy tests and poll taxes and time on

minorities, time, make them wait and they will give up. >> i remember those days also as a child, growing up in el paso, texas when my parents and grandparents could not vote. poll taxes. we have to move forward. having this woman in the audience tonight, it was just remarkable to be able to see her and to realize that she remembers those days, and that she was determined she was going to exercise her full democratic right and she did regardless of the length of time she had to wait. the president took the stand for the public to understand that every vote is cast and counted and people can vote in an easy manner. we go around the world reminding people of the fundamental right to vote in a democracy and here in this country people have to

wait for long periods of time. >> congresswoman i was in south africa when blacks were allowed to vote for the first time. it was the most inspirational trip, along with pulling down the great china wall, and the lines there were four hours. instead of proposing a bill or pushing something strong through, okay, why don't we get my lawyer and her lawyer to work it out. >> the commission is where a good idea dies. >> john kerry told me the same thing happened when he lost the election.

he said look what happened in cleveland. look at the place where you have a lot of democrats waiting and waiting and waiting the way they set up the systems. the gun motion -- here we are. many victims of gun violence in the audience including the parents of one young woman killed in california, just a mile from the president's house. listen to the president. >> her parents, nate and cleo, are in this chamber tonight along with more than two dozen lives who have been torn apart by gun violence. they deserve a vote.

they deserve a vote. they deserve a vote. debbie jeffers deserves a vote. the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and tucson and black burke and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a vote. >> not that they deserve gun safety, but a vote on it. >> i thought that was the emotional high point of the night and a brilliant piece of political theater on the

president's part and the part of the democrats that might have a practical effect. republicans were being shamed publicly into at least being willing to consider something more sweeping and deeper in terms of reforming gun laws in the united states than conventional wisdom would have you think they would allow. a bunch of democrats that had gotten this idea together, bringing victims of gun violence to the event tonight, the president put it in the speech. it was a call and response, almost religious type atmosphere. i don't usually go up to the chamber, chris, for a speech for state of a union. i haven't in a number of years. i did tonight. i'm really glad i did because you could feel the emotion in the room. and to the extent that republican members and wavering democrats and red tape remember

that tonight in the house, may give the president more room to move on guns than i thought. i'm not naive. may be hard to pass anything on the hill, but it was a brilliant way to go about it. >> it seems to me the way it will work out is the speaker says i will bring something to the floor if it passes the senate. by the time is gets through the senate, there may not be anything more than background checks. it sounds like he's not committing to a vote at all. >> the speaker must commit to a vote. the president challenged republicans and democrats tonight. he's going on the road, into this country. he was speaking tonight to the american people. they want this violence to end. in my own district we have many young people who continue to die in oakland, california as a result of gun violence. the president is calling on the people of the united states of

america not only to insist on a vote, but that these bills get passed. >> what the president had to say tonight on jobs. i have been pushing this, like bloomberg and arnold schwarzenegger have been pushing this. looks like he's moving. let's listen. >> hundreds of new jobs brought to north carolina. they said if we upgrade our infrastructure, we will bring more jobs. that's the attitude of countries around the world. i know you want to see those projects around your district, that means ribbon cuttings. tonight i propose a fix it first program. put people to work on our most urgent repairs, like the nearly 70,000 deficient bridges across the country.

>> i'm hesitant to applaud because it's like the thing with guns. i hope we have a vote. where is the big money? infrastructure is expensive. yields jobs, but requires capital investment. we have 70,000 bridges. potholes, and subway systems going deeper and deeper underground. and catching up in terms of mass transit. what is this? a model city? will he do it? >> i think a lot of it, like the gun thing will end up in adds across the country. this was to members of the house of representatives to shame and embarrass them. the whole joke about going to the ribbon cutting, because you

have to do these projects in a way that the districts benefit. he was saying there is something in it for you. they are the road blocks. >> chris, there is no lonny r money in it. he can talk about the fix it first program, but he didn't put a dollar on a and it is my understanding it is not a huge stimulus. he is not going to convince congress to put up money for another infrastructure program. so cooperative efforts between business and government, private sector and universities, that type of thing -- bill clinton is talking about this -- which takes time and can work. but the notion he will have another big infrastructure program through this congress is a pipe dream. >> that's too bad.

thank you both for coming on. coming up, the dueling responses from the gop. mark rubio and paul for the tea party. this is "hardball." [ male announcer ] rocky had no idea why dawn was gone for so long... ...but he'd wait for her forever, for any reason, and would always be there with the biggest welcome home. for a love this strong, dawn only feeds him iams. compared to other leading brands, it has 50% more animal protein. ...to help keep rocky's body as strong as a love that never fades... if he ever lets her leave again. iams. keep love strong.

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if more evidence was necessary, tonight's competing gop responses prove how split the republican party has become. first senator marco rubio who was elected in the tea party. his refrain, more government is the problem. >> more government isn't going to create opportunities.

it's going to limit them. >> but in contradition, he talks about how government programs have helped him and his family. >> i believe in federal financial aid. i couldn't have gone to college without it. and medicare provided my father the care he needed to be treated for cancer and ultimately die with dignity and provides the care my mother receives now. >> rubio isn't enough for the tea party anymore. up next was rand paul with a tea party note. >> we demand he adheres to the constitution. we won't let him trend on the second amendment. we will stand up against excessive government power

wherever we see it. we cannot and will not allow any president to act as if he were a king. >> i am joined by jenny and martin. jenny, why do you think there needed to be two speeches from the right? wasn't the republicans' response adequate? >> thanks for having me. both have sent us almost $17 billion into defendant and i think the tea party decided to have this response so there was somebody advocating tea party values. george w., i voted for the guy thinking he would be common sense, why didn't he veto a single spending bill. he didn't even get into the iraq war which was unnecessary. why did he spend every dollar he got his hands on if he was a republican?

>> i don't know why he did it. i know that spending and the spending continued since then are causing major problems for our economy. americans are concerned about the economy, about getting back to work and about the deficit. >> who is paying for the prescription drugs bill? i always wondered who would pay for that. i thought it was put on the books. >> i think we are all paying for the prescription drug bill. it is the debt we are racking up and we are sending that debt on to future generations. we are kicking the can down the road instead of taking responsibility ourselves. >> talk to my daughter about that. it's one of her concerns. david, the president gave what i thought was a pretty good speech. it was hard for me until the very end to know where his passion lay, clearly on guns and voting rights, but there was so much in there in terms of

infrastructure and immigration, i didn't feel the pulse. >> i thought it was a powerful, progressive agenda he was laying out for the second term. he wasn't trying to forge deals and force compromises they have said they were not interested in. he was trying to lead. saying there is more than the death -- debt. >> on guns he said give me a vote. >> you can even vote no. chris, you have been talking about bridges for the last two years now. >> where is the money? show me the money. >> listen, you can't have -- jenny and i are talking debt, debt, debt. >> i want to know what we are doing in investments. >> you lost the last election on that point. the american people are not debt fixated.

they want to see investments and education. that's what this election was fought about. >> the polling from the pugh foundation from jan show the economy, debt are the top issues. >> economy -- >> yes, the economy. >> that's about jobs. they don't favor the rand paul type of tax on medicare. or paul ryan. one of the most ludicrous things is rubio said he went to school on federal loans and said what should we do for kids today? give them more information about what might happen if they take out loans. that doesn't help out kids. it was absurd. >> let jenny talk. >> all we are saying in tea party patriots is asking government to cut one penny out

of every dollar. if they would do that, we could be at a balanced budget in six years. it's not drastic and will not harmony of us to do that. we are not talking about that much money. it wouldn't take long to get our budget balanced so we could start paying down the debt. >> madeway through the republican response, mark rubio made a move, it had only to do with showmanship. let's wash. watch. >> nothing touched me more than the false promises the president laid out tonight. >> what do you make, david? >> he started out saying the president is wrong because he believes the economy tanked because there wasn't high enough taxes and government. that's not what the government believes.

the tea party crowd, if you ask jenny, have never come to terms with what happened in 2007 and 2008, the corporate abuses that led to main street being brought down. they talked extensively about ruling the main street so they don't screw the tea party. nothing about the mess. we goss it. >> i was trying to have some fun with david, but he's at high speed. let me ask you about this study. right now the federal government collects about 15% of our money and spends about 25%. all you hear from the tea party is cut the spending. how can you balance it around 20 unless you raise taxes.

>> only 15% of the gdp is being taxed. can you in the tea party pay for what you want -- >> i think there is agreement here, when we have unemployment that goes up in the month of january, gdp contracted in the fourth quarter of last year and on the day that those numbers are coming out, wall street goes up. people in wall street are benefiting as the rest of us are -- >> that's good policy, i like that rhetoric, too. you said cut a penny out of the government. that will leave the government spending above 20%. why can't we raise 20% in revenue? you don't want to cut it enough to get down to 15%, do you? >> i want to kout it so we have a balanced budget. we are putting the burden on our

children and we can't afford to do that. that's why we start it. >> chris, here's another question. if you are saying wall street is doing so well, then why do all of the tea party parties oppose barack obama when he wants the wealthy to pay more. >> i want to get rid of the crummey deals. the establishment on both sides make deals that benefits each other. they take care of each other and not taking care of america and the hard working american people. >> stop, david. she is on the show. she has the right to speak. >> sure. >> jenny i believe you have an inconsistency on how we pay. if you look at medicaid and medicare and defense, that costs a lot of money.

everybody would like to cut spending, but you are not willing to equalize spending with revenues. that's my thought. come back and we will debate it again. jenny martin for the tea party. thanks, david. you were a little brash tonight. thanks for coming on and staying up so late. we want to know how you would have finished this statement this year. take a picture of yourself and send it to us. or upload it directly to facebook.com/msnbc. then vote for your favorite. we will have much more of what the president said throughout the hour. up next, the manhunt in southern california, for former police officer dorner.

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the other big story tonight is the manhunt for former police officer dorner. he is accused of killing two police officers. there was a cabin burned to the ground, but no word on whether

dorner was in there. john joins us. we don't have any idea whether mr. dorner was in that cabin when it was burnt down. >> the spokesman for the san diego sheriffs office said they are confident they believe that the suspect, who they believe to be officer dorner, they are confident he is in there. they don't think he got out. they had enough of a cordon around it that they do believe his body is in there. they haven't been able to go in because it's still too hot. also they believe there is a lot of live ammunition in there. when live ammunition gets hot in a fire like that, it goes off. so they were waiting until the

fire cools down and they can get in there. they don't know how soon that will be. they hope to identify the body through dental records and hope to do that on site. >> do we know what caused the fire? >> our friends at knbc here in los angeles are reporting that law enforcement officials tell them the sequence of events was something like this. they broke windows, approached the house, broke windows, fired tear gas in. used some sort of communication system, whether a loud speaker or something, we don't know, to tell dorner the place was surrounded and he should give himself up. they heard nothing so they used an armored bearcat to break down walls. in that process they heard a gunshot from inside and then a fire broke out.

now we don't know what caused that fire to break out. was it a tear gas canister that went in? was it as they were breaking walls, a propane gas tank which the owner did have in the cabin, there might have been a spark. once the fire started they decided it was not safe to go in and to let the fire burn itself out. >> with the suspect shooting at the police through the cabin up until that time? >> they said there is some confusion when the shooting started, but the only thing they got back out of that cabin was gunfire. they say there was no communication out from the cabin. the only thing they got out was gunfire. they can't even estimate how many rounds were fired.

they say that it was some descriptions of it as being automatic, semi-automatic. >> john, you have been great reporting this. i hope everybody reads the paper. what a saga. tomorrow morning we will be reading two big stories in the country, what the president had to say and what happened to christopher dorner. thanks so much. up next, back to the president's state of the union speech. and he is saying it's time to rebuild america. that's a phrase we have been using here. we are going to talk to an expert, is he satisfied with what the president said about rebuilding america. you are watching "hardball." >> tonight i propose a fix it first program to put people to work on our most urgent repairs, like the 70,000 deficient

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most of us agree that a plan to reduce the deficit must be part of our agenda. let's be clear. deficit alone is not a plan. a growing economy that creates good middle class jobs. that must be the north star that guides our efforts. >> the president took aim at republicans who think they can easily trim the deficit through cuts. >> we can't ask senior citizens and working families to shoulder the entire burden.

we want to grow the middle class by shifting the tax care on to families struggling or forcing there to be more layoffs of teachers or cops. we have to understand we can't just cut our way to prosperity. broad-based economic growth requires a balanced approach with spending cuts and revenue and with everybody doing their fair share. that's the approach i offer tonight. >> i have two political analysts with me tonight. i want to start with governor rendell. the democrats believe government has to do something, infrastructure, has to build and

get the economy to grow. unemployment is at 7.9. democrats are up against the republicans which the only purpose is to cut government spending. that seems to be the philosophy. they are at war with each other. >> that's the big clash. everyone sort of agrees, if you get them in a moment of truth, that we have to do long-term debt reduction. but at the same time we have to do short-term things to invest, create jobs in infrastructure and development. the president was right in talking about investing in research and development. we get those dollars back 100-fold.

this is a $50 billion program to fix the nation's bridges. it is a good program and will help. but it is a drop in the bucket. the american society of civilian engineers says we have to pay $1.1 billion between now and 2020 just to make them passable. so it would be suggested to impanel a commission to enhance government, state and local investments. there are ways to do this, but we have to have a real long-term plan. >> the challenge here -- ed koch just passed away. a powerful mayor, but what he could do was hang on. new york, the subway needs to be

rebuilt, everybody below manhattan needs to be fixed. now the government seems to be operating like that. >> travel, go to other countries and see the infrastructure they are building, the airports -- >> france. >> everywhere you go. spend a week and a half in china. it is amazing. it used to be a bipartisan issue, infrastructure. used to sail through. you tried to figure the proper amount of money to spend. but it is penny wise and pound foolish not to repair your bridges and repair them. it's a recipe for decline. >> governor christy has made his name by saying i'm not going to fix the lincoln tunnel or rebuild or open wider passes

from new jersey to new york city which is their essential trade route. >> new jersey is 37th or 38th in job creation because infrastruk structure is a way to increase trade. there are countless bridges that support i-95 on its way to philadelphia. to repair those bridges is a $4 billion price tag. the city and state doesn't have the money. it has to come from somewhere. >> that's from florida to the top of the country. >> it went down three days and in those days, 180,000 vehicles a day go over those bridges. >> to make your point whshgs we would go to florida on a college trip and see those white owned signs. there wasn't stripes.

>> it was a speed trap, a joke. but it took the republicans and lincoln going back to a civil war era. governor, what do you think the $50 million will do? >> it's a drop in the bucket, but it will help on the problem of bridges. and it is a serious problem. democrats and republicans alike have to understand if we are going to be exceptional, we will have to invest in our own future, education, energy. the president has it right, but we have to do it in the right scale. >> i think we need heft. remember that "where's the beef?" >> thank you. up next, the most dramatic moment in the speech tonight,

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we are back. we saw a powerful image tonight, more than 30 victims of gun violence. president obama seized the moment. >> the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and blackburg and tucson and the countless other communities ripped open by the gun deserve a boat. >> nearly everyone in the room were on their feet, probably because of the people in the room with them. i have the victoria and the group of three with me.

did the president bring it home? >> i think he brought it home. that was the emotional heart and soul of the night, chris. he will not get everything he wants, but what he's doing is asking for all of it. he's saying you don't have to vote yes. you can vote no, but he wants to get them on the record on every single piece of legislation. we have money putting money in. we have mayor bloomberg, gaby gifford, and talking about pendleton and bringing home the issue of urban gun violence which we lose focus on when we loaning at newtown -- looking at newtown. it is a coalition. i thought it was a very powerful

moment. >> let's go to the mayor. it seems the republicans are going to play a game here. there are a few suburb annites. >> all he has to do is bring the background check to the house. what do you think on the part of that strategy? will bainer get away with it? >> that's what he will do. he will try as best he can to keep his people from having to cast a vote.

mr. obama, on the other hand, have called him out. tonight that rhetoric by obama was a shout out, you are going to have to let people say yes or no on that issue. i believe when he moves around the country, he will echo that and that will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the republicans and speaker. >> that's the question. will there be a vote? >> i think the mayor is right. the mayor and everyone remembers watergate, release the tapes, release the tapes. a minimalist. release the evidence, give us our day in court. it seemed to be a minimal demand. >> chris, when we are talking about gun violence, my concern is at the state level because that's where the gun legislation gets passed. we have some of the most liberal laws when it comes to guns. you can carry a gun in the open. you don't need to have a permit.

>> but you are never going to win with those cowboys, are you? >> we are. >> they want to carry guns and holsters into hotels. >> we need to go to state capitals to change that. >> big cities can pass a tough gun law. and then what happens is the guns are brought in from somehow else. this question -- let's start at the top here, joan. what do you think will get done. i'm most confident that the president will bring the troops home from afghanistan because he can do it without a vote. republicans have a need to do something, and democrats have a need to do something. if they can work together and get a bill that even the hispanic community could say this is better than what we have got because in the long run we get to be american.

what else do you think he will get done other than immigration and bringing troops home from afghanistan? >> he will get something done on guns. i was excited to hear him talk about universal preschool. that's important. will he get that this year in the first term? i don't know how many he will get. but to layout that we can't be happy with k-12 any more is huge. he is laying out what the country needs and support behind it. >> do you think the two campaigns can get together from last september? fun to turn it over to the lawyer, but you are a lawyer and know how it works. do you think they can stop this voter suppression around the country? >> i don't think he can expect anything from those two people. he would love to have them talk to each other, but they are on the other side the aisle on this

issue. i believe the president can be optimistic about far more than talked about. preschool i believe is one of the things he will get. i think the troops coming home from afghanistan. i think there will be some gun control, maybe not by congress, but his signature. i think it will be something on immigration, far more than the words tonight. i think he will go to cities and mayors and some governor, like my governor jerry brown and you will see a ton of infrastructure being financed by bonds and other means. that will be a package he is selling around the country. >> you are a happy man tonight, mayor. i have never seen such optimism from you.

thank you. victoria? >> he made a big deal about climate. i think that will be in addition to immigration, another big push. and i think this will fall under the executive line of his power. >> thanks so much. nice so have you all staying up late. that's it for this special edition of "hardball." when we continue, our coverage progressive insurance. you know, from our 4,000 television commercials.

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